Here are some thoughts about the relation of the Church to the resurrection of Christ. If this is sounds it destroys any notion that the Church can be found in the OT, and eliminates one of supersessionism‘s major arguments for throwing off the label of replacement theology (i.e., that the Church has always existed). This comes from the forthcoming book.
The resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead is an eschatological event. His risen glorified body which proclaimed in itself the defeat of death is a beautiful anachronism, a flame of hope which all believers can look to and gain hope and strength from. Life blazes in a world of death, signaling the coming victory of Life (cf. 1 Cor. 15:54-57; 2 Cor. 5:4). Although I disagree with his “apocalyptic” reading, I like the way Beker puts it:
Resurrection language is eschatological language…For this reason the resurrection of Christ, the coming reign of God, and the resurrection of the dead belong inseparably together.[1]
To Paul the resurrection of Christ is the promise of history.[2] This is why it takes up so much of the proclamation in the first part of Acts. It is also essential to our understanding of the birth of the Church.
I continue this section by being a bit provocative. Here it is: There could be no Church before the resurrection of Christ for the simple reason that the organism that is made up of Christians is essentially connected to the life of the resurrected Lord.[3] Therefore, without the resurrection there could be no Church.
I realize that such a statement will upset anyone who believes that saints before the cross were indwelt by the Spirit and that there is only one people of God for all ages, but there it is, and I think it is quite easy to demonstrate.
In the first place we have seen that the gift of the Holy Spirit is a gift associated with the New covenant.[4] This is seen in any number of OT New covenant passages such as Isaiah 59:20-21; Ezekiel 16:59-62; 36:25-32; Joel 2:2-29. But the New covenant could not be inaugurated until Christ’s covenant blood had been shed. Further, it is the ascended Christ who sent the Spirit (e.g., Jn. 14:25-28). That is to say, the glorified Jesus sent the Spirit (Jn. 7:39). This seems to be what the apostle is saying in Galatians 4:4-6:
But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
There is a chronological development here. God sends His Son, the Son redeems, then God sends forth the Spirit of His Son. The Spirit is sent after the Son is sent, which is to say, the reference to the Spirit in Galatians 4:6 is in consequence of what was accomplished by the sending of the Son. Hence, the Holy Spirit is “sent” after the death and resurrection of Christ to apply the results of the Son’s work to sinners. The Church is a “ a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.” (Eph. 2:22). With that foundation laid, we can move on to the link with Christ’s resurrected life.
In Pauline theology Christians have “died with Christ” (Rom. 6:8; Col. 3:3), but they have also been vitally linked to the risen Christ.[5] In the first place, there is a definite link with our justification:
who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. – Romans 4:25.
If Christ had to be raised for our justification, then it follows that the body comprised of justified believers (the Church) is a post-resurrection organism and there is a dynamic relationship between Christ’s resurrection and our new life “in Christ” through the Holy Spirit. This New covenant gift of the Spirit is what provides just a small foretaste of the resurrection life that awaits us. Hence, “He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.” (Rom. 8:11).
Similarly, Paul asserts that “we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.” (Rom. 6:4). If we must be “buried with Him through baptism into [His] death,” having been “crucified with Christ” (Gal. 6:14), then Christ had first to die for it to occur (even analogously).
The covenant dimension is essential to all of this. Paul saw himself and his co-workers as, ministering “not… the letter but… the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” (2 Cor. 3:6 my emphasis). The New covenant is “the Holy Spirit covenant.” It is the covenant that gives life (cf. Tit. 3:7).
The conclusion is inevitable; Christ had first to die to instigate the New covenant, then be raised from the dead “for our justification,” and the Spirit of the New covenant had to come in a new way before the Church could exist! The Church has to be a resurrection-New covenant entity.
[1] J. Christiaan Beker, The Triumph of God, 66-67.
[2] Ibid, 127.
[3] In saying this I am not asserting that we are raised now. I only mean that the Church’s union with Christ in new life is a union not with the dead Christ but with the exalted living Christ.
[4] “Paul’s claim that the church is the place where God’s new covenant is being enacted is especially clear in his claim that believers enjoy distinctive new-covenant blessings. Primary among those blessings is the gift of the Spirit.” – Douglas J. Moo, A Theology of Paul and His Letters, 465. See also David Gunn, “An Overview of New Covenant Passages: Ostensible and Actual,” in Christopher Cone, General Editor, An Introduction to the New Covenant, 52, 54. Although not agreeing with the whole piece I commend this article for its careful analysis.
[5] Interestingly, a search of Paul’s use of the term “resurrection” (anastasis) reveals him looking forward to either comprehending it (Phil. 3:10-11), or else participating in its glory (Rom. 6:5. Cf. Rom. 8:11; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14).
4 comments On The Church Could Not Exist Prior to the Resurrection (1)
Dr Paul, The Raptures timing is made clear from the teachings and events recorded in Scripture.
I think we have covered at least some of this before, and you have yet to give adequate reason why this is incorrect.
If I may, we begin our journey with Paul. Many years ago I saw this for the first time in Scripture and it was this thought coupled with a few others that set me on a course seeking for answers:
1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death (speaking of Adam), by man ((speaking of Christ) came also the resurrection of the dead. (KJV)
This section of verses from which this comes, tells us that only by this one man (Christ Jesus) will any man be in the resurrection leading to eternal life. This life for all saved men would come by only one even as only one man Adam, had sinned and caused us humans to fall. How can that be? How can men living before Christ’s time know Him unto salvation, because that is what this says? I asked God that question. And a new journey began.
Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (KJV)
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him [the thief on the cross], Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (KJV)
What intrigued me from these verses was the fact that, this places paradise in the heart or belly of the earth. And it is where Jesus had told us that Abraham resided. But on that very day the thief entered this space paradise with Jesus. Paradise had apparently been moved when Adam sinned in order to protect man from eating of the tree of life. We are told this in Genesis surrounding Adam’s story. This tree of life was in the midst of the garden. It was somehow put under protection of Angelic beings so that men could not eat of the tree of life in its midst and live forever in sin. This tree is also seen in paradise. But, by Jesus statement we are informed where paradise was located at the time of Jesus death. It was in the belly of the earth where He would reside for the next three days, and the thief would be with Him. “Today Thou shalt be with me in paradise”.
Peter tells us that Jesus went there to a prison. He preached. Was this prison Paradise where He was in the Spirit and preached to the dead? This message, even reached the lost of Noah’s day. If they heard His message certainly those in paradise must have. They to whom He preached were not in paradise, but if He was did those in Paradise not also hear it? They whom Peter mentioned were in a place of torment.
We need more information to know if those in paradise heard His message and believed. He was the only One who would deliver them from the belly of the earth, And we do find that this He did.
Understanding where paradise was (in the belly of the earth) impacts our understanding (doctrine) concerning these events. For Heaven would later receive paradise but it was not there yet. Listen:
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (KJV)
This is what Jesus stated to Mary, after His resurrection. It was now after these three days and nights in the belly of the earth (paradise). And He had not yet been to Heaven.
The proof of the relocation of Paradise into Heaven is seen in Paul’s later visit there. Listen:
2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. (KJV)
These verses prove that paradise had been relocated into the third heaven wit its residents soon after Jesus resurrection, and before the time, when Paul was caught up. Further, Scripture tells us how this all transpired:
Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (KJV)
These verses are the threads knitting the Scripture’s story together. They are informing us of this fact that all men from all of history will see the resurrection to eternal life through the one man Jesus Christ because of the established New Covenant, which was promised to Israel. All who have died and gone before us on this earth and all who will come after us meaning all who are now in Christ and all who ever will be are saved and in this same Christ: this one man. There should be no question about this fact. Scripture is clear.
– [ ] So will we the Church also see paradise if and when we die? Obviously one would think that to be the case since Jesus took the thief there on the very day of his death. In fact one could say that this nameless thief was the very first to be placed into Christ’s Church. Then afterward we have the Old Testament souls from Paradise being placed in Christ upon His preaching to them while He was there in Paradise.
– [ ] These then up until that time were being held in prison in the center of the earth and they needed Their savior. They knew He was present on earth. Lazarus the brother of Mary and Martha would have shared this news. John the Baptist the forerunner of Christ had also shared that news. Now here was Jesus. They hear His preaching and soon are all delivered into the third heaven as Jesus has led captivity captive. This then is the beginning of Jesus Church which He stated to His Disciples that He would build. This further is explained by two verses:
Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. (KJV)
Jesus says that He will give to eat of that tree. First we need to know that we in this life (in Him) are destined for paradise where He will feed us from the tree of life. Then: we must know that overcoming in this life means to live and to die obedient in the faith:
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (KJV)
Peter made sure in his Acts sermons that Israel’s Jews knew that Christ was their savior and Messiah. From here on every man whether Jew or Gentile must be saved through Israel’s Christ.
Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. (KJV)
Salvation is in no other.
Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. (NASB2020)
These were added to the Church on the day of Pentecost. So we must see that this is also telling us that the Church had already begun even before Pentecost even as Peter and Paul have explained, how that paradise was the first to be saved making them part of the New Covenant Church, even as the thief had been saved (placed in Christ) even before Pentecost. So then the wording 3000 “added” on the day: “Pentecost”makes sense. Pentecost was only the beginning of being in the Church for those who were still alive. But those who had died and gone before were placed in His Church first by Christ. He took them to the third heaven when He ascended to the Father.
Jesus had said: “no one comes to the Father but by Me” Jesus made no distinction between Old Testament and New Testament persons. Or between a Church age and a Tribulation period. He made no distinction between Jew and Gentile. He stated it as Scripture reveals it.
During Tribulation’s coming men must be saved this same way. So if every man who is saved during the Tribulation is “in Christ”, and therefore most of these if not all will die at the hand of Antichrist, because they will not take the mark and worship the beast, then as such these all must be raised (resurrected) with those who have died and are in Paradise. And Paul says clearly that this will happen before the Rapture can occur. “The dead in Christ will rise first”. This then creates other questions which must be answered.
One being: who then will Christ and His Bride rule over if all the saved are raptured? The answer is found in Matt. 25 concerning the Sheep and Goat judgment. These are all mortals left on earth after Christ has returned. They obviously know nothing of the Scriptures much less of Salvation. The sheep are allowed into the kingdom prepared for them because during the Tribulation, which in Jesus telling, had just passed, they had helped Jesus’ brethren who were unable to buy and sell during that time of the Antichrist rule. These had not been alive to help your past dead relatives. These are those left on earth after Jesus returns and they will be ruled over for a thousand years by Christ and His Bride. If this is not correct then you would have to conclude that Jesus had taught here concerning the judgment of nations that their salvation was by works and not by believing in Him the one man Jesus the Christ. That would be in total opposition to Scriptures teaching.
The next question that may be posed by this understanding is: who then can be raptured if all who do not worship the beast are killed? The answer to this begins with Paul’s understanding of the Old Testament. In Romans 11 he tells us:
Romans 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery–so that you will not be wise in your own estimation–that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; (NASB1995)
The fullness of the Gentiles implies that the very last Gentile has been saved after God has given every opportunity, and then God will turn His focus to save all from the nation Israel. In fact Paul goes on to say:
Romans 11:26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.” (NASB1995)
This salvation does not refer to every Israelite or Jew who ever lived, but to all who are alive and belonging to Israel in that day, which is at a time following the salvation of the last Gentile.
During Tribulation Israel will actually be overcome yet one more time before Jesus comes.
Zach 13 implies a war where only 1/3 of Israel will survive because they will flee (it is believed) to Petra in Edom.
In Revelation 12, we see that when Satan is cast to earth, he immediately attempts war on Israel (the woman who birthed Christ). This will occur before Armageddon. And Israel will be taken to her pace of perfection. These Jews (it is believed) are taken to Petra in Edom.
It is after the last Gentile has been saved and near the end of the Tribulation that all of Israel, which remains at Petra are again under duress during Armageddon’s battle and they will call upon their Messiah to save them. Remember Jesus had stated to The Jews when here on earth: “you will not see me again until you say: blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.”
Jesus being the Word of God knew what He had prophesied before in O.T. Scriptures:
Hosea 5:15 I will go away [and] return to My place Until they acknowledge their guilt and seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me. (NASB1995)
It is likely that from Petra during the battle of Armageddon a unified cry will go up to Jesus the Messiah. For here is what Jesus states being the Word of God concerning Himself in these days of Israel’s deliverance:
Isaiah 63:1 Who is this coming from Bozrah in Edom with his clothes stained bright red? Who is this dressed in splendor, going forward with great strength? “It is I, the LORD. I am coming to announce my victory. I am powerful enough to save [you].”
The people then ask: Vs.2 Why are your clothes red and your garments like those who trample grapes in a winepress?
Jesus answers: Vs. 3 “I have trampled alone in the winepress. No one was with me. In my anger I trampled on people. In my wrath I stomped on them. Their blood splattered my clothes so all my clothing has been stained. 4 I planned the day of vengeance. The year for my reclaiming [you] has come. 5 I looked, but there was no help. I was astounded that there was no [outside] support. So with my own power I won a victory. My anger supported me. 6 In my anger I trampled on people. In my wrath I made them drunk and poured their blood on the ground.” (GOD’S WORD)
These last several verses recount before it has happened the coming of Jesus to save Israel’s remnant located in Edom. This is to occur on earth before Messiah is seen coming in the sky to rule. It appears that He returns in these same blood stained garments (see Revelation 19. Then all Israel will be saved.
It is highly likely that these last ones to be saved (these Jews) will be the only ones left to be Raptured when the resurrection occurs. Only because they were sealed and protected from Satan’s wrath.
Jesus prophesied these events in the O.T. Scriptures. It is highly unlikely that they will not occur even as He revealed it to Paul. So what does Paul state? Paul here is speaking of Israel:
Romans 11:15 For if their [present] rejection [of salvation] is for the reconciliation of the world [to God], what will their acceptance [of salvation] be but [nothing less than] life from the dead? (AMP)
We know that their salvation will come after the last Gentile is saved. Paul had told us this also in Romans 11. So those remaining of the nation Israel will be the last to be saved, and since there are no more to be saved it makes perfect sense for Jesus to go back in His blood stained royal garments and gather his angles and the elect are called forth in the first resurrection. This resurrection must be followed by the Rapture. Israel’s salvation will yield “life from the dead” or the first resurrection. Paul stated it just that way in his Epistles.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (KJV)
Paul did not stop there for after this first Resurrection of the dead then he says:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (KJV)
Scripture interprets the scriptures when they are put in their chronological order.
This blog was created to assist you in understanding your future, and God’s plan for it.
Jesus tells us that persecution and Tribulations will come but we are not to fear them, for He has overcome the world for us. We are to overcome in our little part of it for Him.
Jerry, this isn’t remotely about the rapture. Do you even read the articles?
I did and the Church which you describe is also the Bride who will be Raptured. I know that your main concern is with replacement theology and the covenants being applied to Jesus and the new Covenant. I can’t see how one can separate Israel’s saved O.T. People from what Christ established as His church. On the other hand I do see in scripture the need for a mortal Nation to continue to rule over the Other mortal nations which Jesus welcomes into the kingdom. I do see that the prior promises made to Israel will be fulfilled in Christs kingdom. The rapture divides the Church out from these Nations. This is why what I stated relates to what you stated here.
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